Beta 1: Barge to Alcatraz

[dummiesboy]

I posted this video on Facebook awhile back, but forgot to share it here. It's actually pretty interesting though.

In beta 1, there's a barge you can get on with the Double Decker Bus. Using cheat engine to speed the game up, I was able to complete the full trip in a reasonable amount of time. It ended up taking me to Alcatraz!



This is an interesting find, because it's actually mentioned in an old Q&A chat log with the devs from 16 years ago. Obviously it isn't in the retail version, so it makes you wonder how many other things never made the final cut.

Transit_BD108> is there any way of getting on to Alcatraz?

Gabe@Midtown2> You might be able to make it to Alactraz. It's all about the Ferry... I'm not sure though.

[Franch88]

That's another great find, Dummiesboy, very nice work.
So, the ferry moves very slowly and its bound is glitchy (it's typical a ferry moving prop object), making it rideable only by the default Double Decker Bus (considering only the game default vehicles). Yeah, looks like it was an idea that maybe was going to be included in the rushed final version of the game.
What about that chat log? Do you have the full version of it?

[dummiesboy]

There are two, actually. I'll post them here as spoilers since they're pretty long. The barge is mentioned in the second chat log.

The first chat log mentions that Gabe wanted to add chipmonks falling out of trees when you hit them, but the other devs didn't like that idea. After everyone else in chat said they liked the idea, they ended up being added in the final game. Pretty cool to know the story behind that.

Chat Log 1: August 2, 2000

Spoiler

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� Copyright 2000 MM2 Central.
RocK was at the chat, for questions please email RocK: rock@btwracing.com

Copy with permission, email Rippance: rippance@btwracing.com

=================================================================================================

MSN Gaming Zone Chat Transcript
With Jay Panek and Gabriel Valencia
MSN Gaming Zone, August 2, 2000

+Debbee@ZEvents> Jay Panek has been at Angel Studios for almost three years. In that time he has worked
+Debbee@ZEvents> on Midtown Madness 1 and 2 and Ken Griffey Jrs. Slugfest. He's worked in
+Debbee@ZEvents> games and animation for the last 8 years
+Debbee@ZEvents> Gabriel Valencia has worked on Stonekeep, Starfleet Academy, Die by the
+Debbee@ZEvents> Sword, Savage Quest and is currently the lead programmer for Midtown
+Debbee@ZEvents> Madness 2.
+Debbee@ZEvents> Turn ons: boogie boarding, School House Rock, and Master of
+Debbee@ZEvents> Orion 2. Turn offs: inflation, blatantly corrupt politicians, and gas
+Debbee@ZEvents> and electric price hikes.
+Debbee@ZEvents> Welcome to the Zone Jay and Gabriel!
+Debbee@ZEvents> Ready for questions?
Gabe@Midtown2> Hi guys!
+Debbee@ZEvents> ga AKA
AKA_bootXL> Hello there! Will Midtown Madness 2 support current/future custom cars straight out of the box or will players have to wait for another program like the VCK to be created? I have one more quick question about lag...
AKA_bootXL> How has the lag issue during CNR multiplayer been improved? Sometimes players have to swerve 1 or 2 car lengths ahead of opponents in order to score a hit/knock gold off their opponent's screen.
Gabe@Midtown2> Cars from the MM1 VCK won't be compatible.
AKA_bootXL> But you do plan on supporting custom cars for MM2 down the line?
Gabe@Midtown2> The functionality is in there.
Gabe@Midtown2> Again, like in MM1, would be totally unsupported.
AKA_bootXL> Gotcha, can you comment on the lag issue?
Gabe@Midtown2> I was really impressed with how you guys learned to use the last VCK, despite it being a dev tool and not a polished commercial tool.
Gabe@Midtown2> As for the lag, we're currently optimizing network.
Gabe@Midtown2> We're putting alot of attention on play in the Zone.
+Debbee@ZEvents> ga ironchair
ironchair_> ty debbee. how much better is multiplayer now in comarison to mm1? (ga)
Gabe@Midtown2> We've been focusing on improving the interpolation.
DYNO_Cobra> Howdy Gabe
Gabe@Midtown2> Dig that name. ;)
DYNO_Cobra> Howdy Jay
DYNO_Cobra> Compared to Chicago, Approximately how much larger (if at all) will the London and San Fransisco maps be?
Jay@Midtown2> Hey
DYNO_Cobra> Wow.. Jay IS alive ;)
Jay@Midtown2> I don't know exactly how much bigger, but
Jay@Midtown2> the cities are far more detailed and
Jay@Midtown2> include more shortcuts and secret areas.
+Debbee@ZEvents> flup DYNO?
DYNO_Cobra> Yes please
+Debbee@ZEvents> ga
DYNO_Cobra> Will there be an option to change cars while already in a MP game.. I've found this is a real pain changing cars while exiting the game, and coming back in.
Jay@Midtown2> Sorry , no.
DYNO_Cobra> nfq, ty
+Debbee@ZEvents> ga robber
Robber1> Hi thanks for making great games (Can't wait till I receive the BETA) :)
Robber1> Has anyone received the BETA allready? or knows when MS is going to ship????? Second: is it possible to have MM1 and MM2 installed at the same time? Third: Why does the press have the BETA allready and the winners not????????????????
Jay@Midtown2> BETA has already gone out
Robber1> I didn't receive it yet...
Robber1> But my last question...
Gabe@Midtown2> We don't control the BETA program, MS does.
Robber1> In MM1 in cruise mode, when a car damage out you'll be taken to another place, while in CnR you stay at the same place, is this the same in MM2?
Gabe@Midtown2> The BETA has been out, as far as I know.
Robber1> k
Gabe@Midtown2> Yes, you can have both versions installed at the same time.
Robber1> Great thanks...
Robber1> NOQ
+Debbee@ZEvents> ga turbo
l_TuRbO_l> Yo peeps!
l_TuRbO_l> Hey
Jay@Midtown2> In cruise mode, you will regen in the place you damage out, in both single and multi player
l_TuRbO_l> Heya!! I'm just wondering will MM2 have better multiplayer games because in MM I sometimes see strange things like one player in the top left-hand corner of the map and when they get the gold I cant see the arrow or them! Also.............
Gabe@Midtown2> I've never heard of that bug. It hasn't come up in our testing at MS.
l_TuRbO_l> o i c
l_TuRbO_l> oh well
+Debbee@ZEvents> flup?
l_TuRbO_l> yep
l_TuRbO_l> Also DYNO_JimmyWN would like to know what is going to fly out of objects such as the dumpster and etc.
Gabe@Midtown2> I think you'll like our exploding trees.
l_TuRbO_l> cool@
l_TuRbO_l> !*
+Debbee@ZEvents> ga 402
Gabe@Midtown2> There were lots of complaints in MM1 about invulnerable saplings.
+Debbee@ZEvents> opps 502
_502_NuKe> yay!
_502_NuKe> Heya! I'm just wondering if there will be cheats for MM2 such as a nude cheat for pedestrians or anything of this matter?
_502_NuKe> ...
_502_NuKe> flup please
Gabe@Midtown2> I wanted to add chipmonks flying out of trees, but no one liked that. :)
_502_NuKe> I just wanted to say that I �ed the word flup please dont use it or i will sue you
Gabe@Midtown2> No nude peds, but we've totally expanded the varietry of peds.
_502_NuKe> woohoooo
_502_NuKe> flup
+Debbee@ZEvents> ga
Gabe@Midtown2> You won't see as many doublemint twins.
_502_NuKe> I just wanted to comment
_502_NuKe> That for the people who didn't know interpolate - To insert or introduce between other elements or parts.
_502_NuKe> nfq
_quickshifter_> Hey, has the invisible hole problem been solved on mm2? And the chipmunk thing sounded cool.
+Debbee@ZEvents> ga quick
Jay@Midtown2> What invisible hole problem?
_quickshifter_> in the football feil
_quickshifter_> field
Jay@Midtown2> I'm not sure what the problem was.
_quickshifter_> on the seats
_quickshifter_> when you drive on the seats you fall through a hole
_quickshifter_> then it restarts the race
Jay@Midtown2> You got on the setas?!
Jay@Midtown2> seats
_quickshifter_> yeah
Gabe@Midtown2> Cool.
+Debbee@ZEvents> flup quick?
Jay@Midtown2> I never made it to the seats
_quickshifter_> lol yeah
Gabe@Midtown2> In MM2, you can drive on the rooftops
Gabe@Midtown2> if you can get there.
_quickshifter_> can you drive on water
_quickshifter_> it looks like you can
Gabe@Midtown2> There are ponds you can drive on.
Jay@Midtown2> D_quickshifter_> ok fnq
Gabe@Midtown2> The ocean still kills you.rive IN rather
+Debbee@ZEvents> ga MFC
MFC_MI_MFC> Hey ! Will you release an add-on ? Like an extra city or more cars ? If so, will we be able to download it for free ?
Jay@Midtown2> That's still to be determined
+Debbee@ZEvents> flup?
MFC_MI_MFC> no, thanks
+Debbee@ZEvents> ga 101
_101_BZ_22_> Hi Jay and Gabe! Here is my question, will there be more options in Multiplayer Games and will there be more modes to race in?
Jay@Midtown2> MM2 is shipping with the same game modes as in MM1,
Jay@Midtown2> the difference is twice as much in two cities
+Debbee@ZEvents> flup 101?
_101_BZ_22_> Yes.
_101_BZ_22_> Will you make a program to make MM2 cars or will you need Max, also what version of 3d Max will you need to create cars for MM2 because I have 2.5.
_101_BZ_22_> Oh yeah, I like your idea of chipmunks flying out of trees. Btw, to go on Stadium Seats use a Mustang GT and turn it to the side and you should get up. :)
Jay@Midtown2> There's a building in SF you can drive up onto the roof,
Jay@Midtown2> you'll be about 17 stories up before you plummet to the ground below
_101_BZ_22_> I also got on the Wrigly Building.
_101_BZ_22_> nfq
+Debbee@ZEvents> ga game
Gamehawg> Liked your Chipmunk idea Gabe...maybe you can get them to like possums on the road... Will we be able to play any of the new modes in multiplay? (Crash Course). flup please
Jay@Midtown2> Did you fall through the roof?
Jay@Midtown2> Crash Course is single player only
Gamehawg> bummer
_101_BZ_22_> Nope.
Gabe@Midtown2> Jay really wanted ducks in the water, so we put those in at least.
Gamehawg> heh
Gamehawg> Will MM2 be backward compatible with MM1 so that we can play Chicago with the new cars? And in Multiplay cops and robbers, will you be able to chat at the selection menu?
Jay@Midtown2> I also wanted to spew feathers when you hit them, but too graphic
Gamehawg> lol
Gamehawg> that wouldve been too carmaggeddonish
Gabe@Midtown2> No sorry, we've optimized the rendering engine to support cooler graphics features.
Gamehawg> bummer again
Gabe@Midtown2> You'll dig SF and London, though.
Gamehawg> I can't wait!
Gamehawg> What about the Chat
Gabe@Midtown2> CNR you can chat in the lobby.
Gamehawg> aawwwwwwwww man.
TC_lawabider> hi. great chipmuck idea :-) cant wait till i get my beta.
+Debbee@ZEvents> ga tc
TC_lawabider> Will the AI cars have damage? Like damage textures. parts flying off, etc.? And can we expect clear windows in the final MM2 like in some current user made cars? (one more possible question) will the dashs' be in 3d? Like if you look to the side will...
TC_lawabider> you see a door/seat and things like that?
Gabe@Midtown2> The AI opponents have the same damge you do, which has been revamped to
Gabe@Midtown2> look more realistic.
Gabe@Midtown2> We're also added breakable parts,
Gabe@Midtown2> so that stuff like headlights on the Mini Cooper
Jay@Midtown2> The new player cars have parts that fly off.
Gabe@Midtown2> or the mirrors on the Audi can fall off.
+Debbee@ZEvents> flup tc?
TC_lawabider> yes please
TC_lawabider> Will you have a choice of headlights like hight beams, low beams, etc.?
TC_lawabider> and will you have a clutch?
TC_lawabider> *high
Jay@Midtown2> lawabider. that's not how you play the game is it?
TC_lawabider> sometimes. lol
Gabe@Midtown2> We've ditch those dorky light cones for a cooler glow effect that models the real way lights attenuate.
TC_lawabider> howese would i get my name? :-)
TC_lawabider> *how else
+Debbee@ZEvents> ga LXR
LXR_jose> I have only one question? The midotwn madness 2 is going to be on MEXICO and how many it will cost?
Jay@Midtown2> If you drive like that in SF, don't forget to look up and
Jay@Midtown2> say hi as I fly over you :)
Gabe@Midtown2> Wait 'til you see the London traffic. They're light signals are totally alien.
Gabe@Midtown2> Yes, MS is planning to localize in Mexico.
Transit_Master> Will Chicago be able to be an add on for MM2?
Gabe@Midtown2> Dunno, how much. Via Fox!
Gabe@Midtown2> opp, Viva Fox!
+Debbee@ZEvents> ga tranist
Transit_Master> flup: will there be turn signals
Jay@Midtown2> The player doesn't have control over turn signals
Transit_Master> ok, ty Jay
+Debbee@ZEvents> ga LCT
LCT_N_IceCore> Hi, will the AI cars still run into you when you stop in single player? Also will there be a firetruck and/or ambulance added to the emergency fleet?
Jay@Midtown2> Yes, there is a fire truck.
Jay@Midtown2> The AI has been enhanced for MM2
+Debbee@ZEvents> ga snapple
snapplejohn414> I noticed in one video and some pictures that there was a highway in SF that you could theoretically jump from and onto the road below ... will that be possible (or at least similar semi-insane stunts)?
Jay@Midtown2> Way more insane stunts are possible than the video showed,
Jay@Midtown2> THere are landmarks that give you access to roofs,
Gabe@Midtown2> That was Jay driving in the videos, btw. :)
snapplejohn414> Any teasers you can give for the stunts?
Gabe@Midtown2> I think it was Jay's voice too.
Jay@Midtown2> Try Justin Herman Fountain when you get the game
snapplejohn414> I shall then
Jay@Midtown2> When you're on the roof, don't stop there
Jay@Midtown2> push the envelope
Jay@Midtown2> Also,
Jay@Midtown2> hit the backside of Lombard at about 120MPH
Gabe@Midtown2> That one is cool.
Jay@Midtown2> you'll fly over the entire thing
snapplejohn414> Man, now I'm drooling
snapplejohn414> Can't wait till Oct.
Jay@Midtown2> London has it's share of secrets too
Jay@Midtown2> You can do a barrel roll if you hit one of the monuments right
Gabe@Midtown2> Yep, again the new engine let's you drive on roofs, if you can get to them.
Jay@Midtown2> and there are barges in the river to help you avoid traffic.
Gabe@Midtown2> Yeah, you can catch rides on the barges, if you jump just right.
+Debbee@ZEvents> ga ronzoni
ronzoni> duuuuuudes Midtown 1 rocked! how many race events we go now, and what can
ronzoni> you tell us about crash course?
Jay@Midtown2> Hey, the San Francisco treat
Gabe@Midtown2> Crash course races are really rad.
Jay@Midtown2> MM1 had 64 race events between amatuer and pro,
Jay@Midtown2> MM2 has 180!
Gabe@Midtown2> In CC you get to practice being a movie stunt driver practicing shots.
Gabe@Midtown2> That's for SF, in London you're a Cab driver.
Gabe@Midtown2> For those races you get to try all kinds of wild stuff.
Gabe@Midtown2> One of my favorites is follow that car,
Gabe@Midtown2> where you have to keep pace with a fast car through the city.
Gabe@Midtown2> That one can be really challanging.
TRIGERFISH> Hey!
+Debbee@ZEvents> ga triger
TRIGERFISH> Was wonderin', will MM2 trafic and buildings be able to receive damage? If so, will it be detailed?
Jay@Midtown2> Some buildings will have breaklable doors and glass
Jay@Midtown2> The ambient traffic won't show damage
TRIGERFISH> Will the pedes have white face
Jay@Midtown2> The ambient vehicles and peds have a lot more variety now. They make the
Jay@Midtown2> cityies look more alive
+Debbee@ZEvents> ga SWT
SWT_saffer311> Hey you guys rock and so does Midtown Madness 1.
Gabe@Midtown2> thanks :)
SWT_saffer311> When I jump over some buildings the car will go inside the building and it will mess up my screen and start the game all over again. Will it do that in MM2?
Gabe@Midtown2> No, it won't.
Gabe@Midtown2> we made the engine support
SWT_saffer311> cool because i hated that
Gabe@Midtown2> you being able to drive over anything
SWT_saffer311> ok
SWT_saffer311> cool
Gabe@Midtown2> We had to
Gabe@Midtown2> because you get so much air in SF!
Gabe@Midtown2> London's bridges are made for jumping too.
Gabe@Midtown2> I know that's not how they are in real life,
Gabe@Midtown2> but this is more FUN!
+Debbee@ZEvents> ga Zolk
Zolk> Will MM2 have improved AI, so you don't get smashed into while waiting at a red light? noq
Jay@Midtown2> The AI has been enhanced across
Jay@Midtown2> the board
+Debbee@ZEvents> ga JR
JR_KOOL> Hello. I have a AMD K6-2 500 chip with 128 meg ram. will mm2 run smooth on my system or do I need to invest in more ram?...
Jay@Midtown2> Should run fine.
JR_KOOL> thx, noq
RTScpkwetwillie> How much will mm2 cost?
Gabe@Midtown2> We don't set the price, we just make the game. :)
+Debbee@ZEvents> ga CPD
CPD_GNB288> Hi, I like your chipmunk idea and will be able to drive inside buildings, wreck the stuff in it, drive up stairs or up elevators and do stunts like in MM1? Also...
Gabe@Midtown2> Totally.
CPD_GNB288> will there be gas stations?
Gabe@Midtown2> You can drive through most landmarks.
Gabe@Midtown2> Some buildings are there just to let you get big air.
E_SpeedSter> Hi there! I want to ask if the max players # will be the same of mm1??? And i saw lots of screenshots with a bad graphics quality!!! The graphics will be better than MM1 or will be the same? Last: What are the requirements to play MM2??
Gabe@Midtown2> Those were bad screenshots
Gabe@Midtown2> They were compressed jpegs
Gabe@Midtown2> Anyways, the graphics in MM2 are way better than MM1
Gabe@Midtown2> The requirements are a P233 and 32 MB of Ram with a hardware card.
Gabe@Midtown2> You can use the software renderer if you don't have a HW card
+Debbee@ZEvents> ga long
LongspeedX> Hey! In Single Cruise Mode, if a Ford Mustang Police Cruiser or a Freightliner Fire Truck came by with its sirens on, will the AI vehicles move to the side like in real life?
LongspeedX> Flup, please?
Gabe@Midtown2> No, that would make it way too easy! It's better
Gabe@Midtown2> to plow through with you fire truck!
LongspeedX> Will the City Bus have SF MUNI decals instead of CTA decals?
Gabe@Midtown2> I have to say the siren lights look much cooler. :)
LongspeedX> Flup, please?
+Debbee@ZEvents> ga
Gabe@Midtown2> No, but we changed updated the cop cars, for both cities.
LongspeedX> .
LongspeedX> Will traffic lights go green for cross AI traffic instead of one at a time?
LongspeedX> Both left and right?
Jay@Midtown2> We have cross traffic in specific intersections,
Jay@Midtown2> it intensifies the driving to see cars going both ways in front of you.
Jay@Midtown2> The peds cross the street now too.
+Debbee@ZEvents> Insider has the last question of the night
+Debbee@ZEvents> ga
InsiderEdge> I think this is a "Technical Support Question" but I have tryd like 50 people and non of there ideas worked. If you know this answer please tell me... Do you know how to get downloaded cars to mm1?
Gabe@Midtown2> Put the *.ar file into your midtown directory.
InsiderEdge> How?
Gabe@Midtown2> if you've got a car .ar file just copy it into your midtown directory
Gabe@Midtown2> if you're exporting the car via the vck, it should create this file at the end of the process
Gabe@Midtown2> if you're dowloading files off the net, you'll get a ar file, ie. vpmalibu.ar
Gabe@Midtown2> Before we close, I'd like to bring up the vehicle physics, which has been worked on alot
Gabe@Midtown2> to give better performance.
Gabe@Midtown2> You can control your power slides now, and car handling is much cooler now.
+Debbee@ZEvents> I'd like to thank Jay and Gabriel for spending time with us tonight. Hope you can come back once Midtown Madness 2 is released! I'd also like to thank all of you for being here as well! Good Night!
Gabe@Midtown2> Thanks for dropping in, guys!
=Jay@Midtown2> Thanks

Chat Log 2: September 6, 2000

Spoiler

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Midtown Madness 2 Chat
6 September 6:00 PM

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Copyright 2000 MM2 Central - https://mm2c.btwracing.com
Thanks to Draconian :D
rippance@btwracing.com for questions
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+Julia@ZEvents> Welcome to the "Meet the Game Designers of Midtown Madness 2 " Chat! We will start at 6pm PST (about 40 mins)
+Debbee@ZEvents> Jay Panek, Gabriel Valencia, and Fred Markus will be online to talk about the newest game soon to hit store shelves. Learn how they created the new London and San Francisco courses complete with historic landmarks.
+Debbee@ZEvents> Jay Panek has been at Angel Studios for almost three years.
+Debbee@ZEvents> In that time he has worked
+Debbee@ZEvents> on Midtown Madness 1 and 2 and Ken Griffey Jrs. Slugfest.
+Debbee@ZEvents> He's worked in games and animation for the last 8 years
+Debbee@ZEvents> Gabriel Valencia has worked on Stonekeep, Starfleet Academy, Die by the
+Debbee@ZEvents> Sword, Savage Quest and is currently the lead programmer for Midtown Madness 2.
+Debbee@ZEvents> Turn ons: boogie boarding, School House Rock, and Master of
+Debbee@ZEvents> Orion 2.
+Debbee@ZEvents> Turn offs: inflation, blatantly corrupt politicians, and gas
+Debbee@ZEvents> and electric price hikes.
+Debbee@ZEvents> Joining them tonight is Fred Markus, Game Design Director
+Debbee@ZEvents> Welcome to the Zone Jay, Gabriel! and Fred
+Debbee@ZEvents> Ready for questions?
Gabe@Midtown2> hiya y'all!
Jay@Midtown2> Hey everybody
Midtown_fred> Hi!
+Debbee@ZEvents> ga AKA
AKA_bootXL> Hi there Angel Studio guys! What happened to the car Physics Realism setting for MM2? Every vehicle drives more true to real life which makes it slightly harder to preform stunts.
Gabe@Midtown2> :)
Jay@Midtown2> The physics were totally redone...
Jay@Midtown2> The physics are so good now, the need for a slider wasn't necessary...
Gabe@Midtown2> In MM2, some cars drive realistically, some are tuned more for fun.
AKA_bootXL> So you wanted them to have more real world type driving?
Gabe@Midtown2> The DoubleDecker is tuned for fun, for example.
Jay@Midtown2> We want them to be fun.
Midtown_fred> Not really, some cars only, for experienced players.
AKA_bootXL> It seemed more fun to customize the settings for me. ;)
+Debbee@ZEvents> flup AKA?
AKA_bootXL> Thanks, nope.
+Debbee@ZEvents> ga Zippo
Midtown_fred> It would create a lot of problems in fine tuned crash courses.
Plain_ol_Zippo> heya :), in MM2 do the pedestrians still jump out of the way? or can you knock em down? cause I saw a SS and could of swore I saw pedestrians flopped on the ground. Also, will the cars have new damage textures?
Gabe@Midtown2> nice nick.
Plain_ol_Zippo> ?
Gabe@Midtown2> In MM2, the peds dive out of the way.
Jay@Midtown2> You can't hit the peds
Plain_ol_Zippo> alright, and the damage textures?
Jay@Midtown2> The damage textures have changed from MM1...
Gabe@Midtown2> Honestly, it's better that way... you can herd the peds around. :)
Jay@Midtown2> We apply damage to the area of the vehicle that gets hit and...
Plain_ol_Zippo> lol
Jay@Midtown2> we also have breakable parts for the new cars
Plain_ol_Zippo> :)
+Debbee@ZEvents> flup Zippo?
Plain_ol_Zippo> nope
+Debbee@ZEvents> ga RTL
RTL_ukeeg> Hi, I was wondering that in future versions of Midtown Madness, you might consider to base the game on some Canadian cities. For example Toronto or Montreal?
Jay@Midtown2> We're shooting for Tahiti
Gabe@Midtown2> I hear the driving is excellent there...
Midtown_fred> If it's really fun to drive there, then why not? It's all about the driving experience.
+Debbee@ZEvents> flup?
RTL_ukeeg> no thanks
+Debbee@ZEvents> ga RT
Gabe@Midtown2> rt?
+Debbee@ZEvents> ga Zolk
Zolk> Hi! Do you know how long it will be before a VCK tool is released for MM2?
Jay@Midtown2> We just finished the game and are planning a little time off...
Jay@Midtown2> The next thing we work on will be the trial version...
Gabe@Midtown2> That's a demo, in english.
+Debbee@ZEvents> flup?
Zolk> yes..
+Debbee@ZEvents> ga
Zolk> Do you know when mm2 will be released? I've heard several different dates.
Jay@Midtown2> Actually, I don't know for sure.
Gabe@Midtown2> It should be by the end of the month, though.
Zolk> Okay, thanks.
Zolk> noq
Jay@Midtown2> Check the Midtown page on MS site for more info
+Debbee@ZEvents> ga HYE
HYE_Cruiser> Hi I was wondering how the damage has been improved from MM1 to the new Midtown Madness 2 do buildings get damaged? and Is there an Instant replay option??
Gabe@Midtown2> Damage has been improved.
Gabe@Midtown2> Cars has breakable parts that fall off.
HYE_Cruiser> and the instant replay?
Gabe@Midtown2> The buildings only lose stuff like awnings.
Gabe@Midtown2> We ran out of time to support it.
Jay@Midtown2> There's a lot of glass to break and the buildings are more interactive than in MM1
Jay@Midtown2> You can even get on the roofs!
+Debbee@ZEvents> flup?
HYE_Cruiser> oh ok, so overall the flying parts and breakable building make for a more fun driving experience
Gabe@Midtown2> Roof jumping is really fun.
Midtown_fred> Oh yes it is!
Jay@Midtown2> Breaking stuff is good
HYE_Cruiser> cool
Jay@Midtown2> flying parts is good
Midtown_fred> Lots more shortcuts, hidden places...
Gabe@Midtown2> There's a special treat when you hit a tree for those of you who were at the last Zone chat.
HYE_Cruiser> ok thanx
jedrgy> Ok I have 3 Questoins 1) Will Midtown Madness 2 be ported to X-Box (Please anwser)
+Debbee@ZEvents> ga jedrgy
Gabe@Midtown2> We don't know, honestly...
jedrgy> Ok I have 3 Questoins 1) Will Midtown Madness 2 be ported to X-Box (Please anwser)
jedrgy> oh ok
jedrgy> so they don't let you konw?
jedrgy> know
jedrgy> 2) Is it possible for me to get a beta copy of MM2?
Gabe@Midtown2> We don't handle the Beta program, MS does.
jedrgy> ok thanks
jedrgy> last one
jedrgy> 3) How will MM2 run on this system: 733/P3 128ram 32meg TNT2? Thats all, THANKS!!! noq thanks for your time! :)
Midtown_fred> It's gonna run awesome!
Jay@Midtown2> killer
+Debbee@ZEvents> ga BD
Transit_BD108> Hey Guys! I have 3 questions. #1 When will Midtown Madness 2 Start appering on shelves on Northern BC (Canada)? and #2 is there any way of getting on to Alcatraz? #3 Will parked cars be able to pull out and drive or will they remain idle in MM2?
Jay@Midtown2> #1 I should know, but I'm sorry I don't...
Transit_BD108> lol alright.
Transit_BD108> 2 and 3?
Gabe@Midtown2> You might be able to make it to Alactraz. It's all about the Ferry... I'm not sure though.
Jay@Midtown2> keep checking the midtown page on the MS site for updates
Midtown_fred> #3 nope, they stay idle.
+Debbee@ZEvents> flup?
Transit_BD108> 1yes
Transit_BD108> yes
+Debbee@ZEvents> ga
Transit_BD108> do you guys have some sort of Chat program like IOCQ or MSN IM that I can contact you on?
Transit_BD108> ICQ*
Gabe@Midtown2> Our sysadmin blocks it behind our firewall..
Jay@Midtown2> We're behind a fire wall.
Midtown_fred> yes, we are behind a .... firewall.
+Debbee@ZEvents> ga Awesys
Transit_Awesys> Hey there! I have 2 questions... What happened to that 50's Cadillac that was going to be in the game? and is the AI heavier for the final version so they dont go flying?
Gabe@Midtown2> Ouch!
Midtown_fred> You mean the ambient traffic?
Jay@Midtown2> The license for the Caddillac fell through...
Transit_Awesys> yeah
Jay@Midtown2> It was one of our favorites.
Gabe@Midtown2> I really liked it...
Transit_Awesys> looked cool too :)
Transit_Awesys> flup..
+Debbee@ZEvents> ga
Transit_Awesys> and whats with the moon rover
Transit_Awesys> i've heard some stuff about it in the tuning files and such
Midtown_fred> It's been made light because it is boring to be stopped all the time when you race at 180Mph!
Transit_Awesys> so they will still go flying?
Midtown_fred> Not really. They are light but they are not flying.
Jay@Midtown2> It burned in a launch pad accident
Transit_Awesys> lol
Transit_Awesys> but seriously?
Gabe@Midtown2> It was a weather balloon.
Midtown_fred> It did!
Transit_Awesys> thats cool
Transit_Awesys> anywys..
Transit_Awesys> thanks, and in the meantime and between time, have a great day, and happy programming... noq nice meeting you :)
Gabe@Midtown2> 8-p
Jay@Midtown2> Thanks transit
+Debbee@ZEvents> ga edge
midtown_edge> #1is the traffic going to have damage textures? #2 will cars driving around park at all or just keep going?
Midtown_fred> #2?
Gabe@Midtown2> They're hurting on the insides...
Jay@Midtown2> They are karate cars, they bruise on the inside
midtown_edge> the traffic in cruise will they park
Gabe@Midtown2> There are parked cars.
Midtown_fred> No, they just keep going.
Midtown_fred> Karate cars don't park either.
+Debbee@ZEvents> flup?
midtown_edge> do they just drive in circles
Midtown_fred> No, they drive around the entire city...
Jay@Midtown2> No, the ambient vehicles drive all over the city...
midtown_edge> will it work on my 386
Gabe@Midtown2> No, they drive around trying without breaking the traffic laws.
Jay@Midtown2> they aren't on a predetermined path.
midtown_edge> ok
Transit_Carrier> In the beta, I noticed that trees explode no matter how fast or slow you are going. Will this be fixed, or was it meant to be this way?
Gabe@Midtown2> In MM1, one of the major complaints was that trees stopped you.
Gabe@Midtown2> So, for gameplay, we made them not get in the way!
Transit_Carrier> k, noq. Thanks
Jay@Midtown2> It's fun as hell to make a tree explode...
Transit_Carrier> Yeah :)
+Debbee@ZEvents> ga TUF
TUF_Binden> Is the game going to Support downloaded cars? is MS going to release new cars and citys that can be downloaded into MM2?
Gabe@Midtown2> The game supports downloading cars of the MM2 format, but I don't know what MS's plan are regarding cars and cities.
+Debbee@ZEvents> flup?
TUF_Binden> Has the cop AI been improved alot? will the call other cops to help out cathc the player
TUF_Binden> catch*
Gabe@Midtown2> They're alot smarter than they used to be.
Midtown_fred> Yes it has. They are not as crazy.
Jay@Midtown2> The cops have been enhanced to chase the opponets as well...
TUF_Binden> Ok
TUF_Binden> thanks , noq
+Debbee@ZEvents> ga CPK
Jay@Midtown2> and to have more regard for the surroundings
CPK_fordfan_1> Hi There:),#1How big well San Fransisco and London be in MM2.? #2 Well there be any cool little trail's/shortcut's.?#3 How well it run on a 1Gz 128MB RAM 30 GB Voodo 5.#4 well cop�s drive around or well they be parked like in MM1.?
Midtown_fred> #2 Tons of shortcuts!
Jay@Midtown2> SF and London are HUGE!!!
Gabe@Midtown2> #1 they're big
CPK_fordfan_1> lol
Gabe@Midtown2> #1 our C&R games stretched through the whole city and it take a while to cross them!
Jay@Midtown2> There's so much to find in each city and so much to interact with
Gabe@Midtown2> #2 there are a TON of shortcuts.
Midtown_fred> Yeah, a TONNNNNNNN
CPK_fordfan_1> :)
Jay@Midtown2> Cops are parked as they were in MM1...
Jay@Midtown2> cruising cops is on the list.
Gabe@Midtown2> #3 You have better hardware than I do.
CPK_fordfan_1> lol
Gabe@Midtown2> #4 The cops lay in wait, just like real life. :(
+Debbee@ZEvents> flup?
CPK_fordfan_1> no thank's
+Debbee@ZEvents> ga Elwood
Elwood_bl> Hi! What new surprises can we look foward to in Midtown Madness 2? And, I hate people that pirate software, what has been done to protect against pirating MM2?
Gabe@Midtown2> Elwood!
Gabe@Midtown2> I think the coolest new thing is Crash Course.
Midtown_fred> More races! More shortcuts! More protections!
Jay@Midtown2> If I told you the surprises, they wouldn't be surprises!...
Elwood_bl> lol
Jay@Midtown2> I will tell you this...
Jay@Midtown2> The best view of SF is from the roof of the Hyatt...
Elwood_bl> cool, and the pirating?
Jay@Midtown2> HOw you get there, is up to you to find :)
Gabe@Midtown2> Crash Course is a series of events that teach you some driving tricks, but they're really fun too.
Gabe@Midtown2> My favorite CC event is "River Dancing" where you have to cross the Thames by jumping barges.
Elwood_bl> Are you able to keep the freeloaders from copying MM2?
Gabe@Midtown2> As for pirating, we shrink wrap that box a bunch.
Elwood_bl> lol
+Debbee@ZEvents> ga 101
_101_BZ_22_> Hi Jay, Gabe, Fred; what version of 3D Max will you need to make cars for MM2? Flup plz...
Gabe@Midtown2> We used Max 3.1
_101_BZ_22_> Can you use Version 2.5 like in Mm1 and.... Did Jay ever get onto the Stadium in MM1? :)
Gabe@Midtown2> He did, but he got caught.
Jay@Midtown2> Please don't bring that up again
+Debbee@ZEvents> f;up?
Midtown_fred> You can do anything with the cars you guys made!
+Debbee@ZEvents> opps flup?
_101_BZ_22_> No ty :)
+Debbee@ZEvents> ga NOTA
NOTA_Ram_Air> Hi guys! Will the game have more races other than the ones on mm1(like checkpoint, blitz, etc.)?
Midtown_fred> Yes Crash courses.
Jay@Midtown2> Yes, MM2 has a new single player event called Crash Course
Jay@Midtown2> MM1 shipped with 64 race events...
Gabe@Midtown2> First of all, there's two cities' worth of the Checkpoint, Circuit, and Blitz races...
Jay@Midtown2> MM2 has 180!!!
Gabe@Midtown2> Then there are the Crash Course events... each one is different.
Midtown_fred> Yes, I had to tune 180 races!
NOTA_Ram_Air> cool
Jay@Midtown2> Crash Course lets you train to be a stunt driver in SF or a cabbie in London
Gabe@Midtown2> One of my favorites is "follow that car"
Jay@Midtown2> The events are designed to isolate specific skills necessary for winnig races
Gabe@Midtown2> where you have to stick to an opponent like glue. It's really a different skill than
Gabe@Midtown2> you're used to from regular racing.
URT_RacerX> Hi Guys!#1will there be a leagal cruise in one of the MM's in the future? #2 How many stuntz will there be? #3 what kind of cars will there be?
+Debbee@ZEvents> ga URT
Jay@Midtown2> #2 the number of stunts are unlimited...
URT_RacerX> :-)
Gabe@Midtown2> #1 Some people like to follow the rules, and if you do it right, cops don't bother you.
URT_RacerX> good
Jay@Midtown2> it depends on how hard you drive the car.
+Debbee@ZEvents> flup?
URT_RacerX> will the people yell at you if your driving leagly?
Jay@Midtown2> Probably, as they do in real life :)
+Debbee@ZEvents> ga Ed
__EdBase__> Nice to meet you. Have you ever been accused of promoting imprudent driving?
Gabe@Midtown2> Fred has.
Midtown_fred> Yes, I had some problems with a journalist.
__EdBase__> well... I'm journalist... :)
Midtown_fred> Tried to make me say the game was all about road rage...
Gabe@Midtown2> You're "a" journalist? :)
__EdBase__> When will we enjoy a Midtown Madness race in an European city? What about Paris or Madrid? yup
Midtown_fred> Ha, Paris...
Midtown_fred> I used to live in Paris. That would be nice.
__EdBase__> or lisbon?
+Debbee@ZEvents> ga topbob
topbob> 1)Hi! do you think the Midtown Madness 2 be 'Game of the year'? or have no idea? 2)Will the player have blinckers?
Midtown_fred> Hell YEAH!
topbob> cool
Jay@Midtown2> As long as the city is interesting and lends itself to fun gameplay, any city is possible
+Debbee@ZEvents> flup
+Debbee@ZEvents> ?
Midtown_fred> Really, there's more in MM2 than in any other racing game.
topbob> no, thanks
topbob> noq
Gabe@Midtown2> I like it.
+Debbee@ZEvents> ga Tequila
Tequila_RC> I worship at the temple of Midtown...you guys are gods. I was surprised you finished the sequel so quickly and with so much more content. For each of you, what's your favorite new addition/feature to Midtown 2? flup, please.
Gabe@Midtown2> Thanks, man!
Midtown_fred> Thanks!!!
Gabe@Midtown2> Like I said, I dig the crash course. I also like all our new announcers...
Jay@Midtown2> The vehicle physics are my favorite enhancement...
Gabe@Midtown2> some of them are pretty funny.
Midtown_fred> I worked hard on the power slides. I LOVE POWER SLIDES!
Jay@Midtown2> The game is about racing and the vehicles in MM2 handle GREAT!...
Gabe@Midtown2> Jay can still power slider better.
Jay@Midtown2> They are fun as hell to drive.
Midtown_fred> The AI is also much better.
+Debbee@ZEvents> flup?
Tequila_RC> What cities would you do for Midtown 3? And are you guys currently developing for the PSX2? Thanks, guys. Midtown rocks. noq.
Jay@Midtown2> The cities themseleves are incredible...
Midtown_fred> Don't know yet.
Jay@Midtown2> You get SO much air in SF, we almost qualify as a flight sim :)
coolturtl> Hello, I have quite a few questions for you, if you don't mind...
coolturtl> first, Will you continue to update MM2 with new cars, maybe some tracks, or freeware to make them, like DF2...?
Midtown_fred> Go ahead.
Gabe@Midtown2> what's df2?
coolturtl> Delta Force 2
Midtown_fred> The game supports both.
coolturtl> alright...
coolturtl> second, will the cops use the bullhorn, the files were in the core.ar file in MM1. flup, plz
Gabe@Midtown2> They have city specific sirens, but they don't talk.
coolturtl> another thing, Judging by your screenshots, the city looks pretty simple... another thing, will you make it more complex (eg: more objects, more traffic cars, etc...) flup
coolturtl> whoops sorry
coolturtl> too many another thing
Midtown_fred> Try it! It is way more complex than you think.
Jay@Midtown2> The cities are anything but simple...
Gabe@Midtown2> They cities are pretty deep. Check out the Underground subway in London...
+Debbee@ZEvents> ga Jhett
Jhett_IG> Hello, Jhett from IntelGamer.Com- What kind of difficulties and problems did you face in development? Also, what features did you wish could have made it into the game but didn't? Flup please
Jay@Midtown2> They have more hidden areas, more interactive buildings, more shortcuts and are bigger
Midtown_fred> From the gameplay point of view, tons of races and vehicles to create and tune.
Gabe@Midtown2> I really wish we'd been able to get the '59 Caddie license.
Jay@Midtown2> There is so much that we put into the game...
Gabe@Midtown2> Still, we got some cool cars like the AudiTT...
Midtown_fred> Reworking physics for better power slides and reverse 180s.
Jay@Midtown2> it took extra effort to bring it all together...
Midtown_fred> That was hard to tune, the reverse 180 thing...
Midtown_fred> But it is SOOOOOO FUN!
Jay@Midtown2> luckily, we have a qulaity team at Angel, and the MS team we worked with was very professional...
Gabe@Midtown2> Even Fred.
Jay@Midtown2> so it minimized the problems.
+Debbee@ZEvents> ga AKA
AKA_Racer> ty
AKA_Racer> 1) I was wondering how difficult it may be to release a new location city for Midtown Madness 1. I am sorry to say I was dissappointed when I recieved my beta ...
AKA_Racer> As much of a Hordcore MM Fan that I am, it hurts to say but as others may agree(or not) it's the physics that turns me away from MM2 ;(
AKA_Racer> also.....
AKA_Racer> 2) If it's not possible for you guys to release a location for Midtown Madness 1, is it possible to show us how to make them? Or maybe transfer some MM2 data *cough* San Fransisco/London *cough* over to MM1 ?
AKA_Racer> and for the flup plz....
AKA_Racer> 3) Will the quality of the mini-map be improoved? Im talking MM1 Style quality?
Jay@Midtown2> The physics didn't allow power slides in MM1....
Midtown_fred> Physics were tune till the last second so you should see a lot of improvement on the final.
Gabe@Midtown2> #3 the map rotates and zooms now, if you like.
Jay@Midtown2> The physics now give you more control of the vehicle. You have to counter steer during power slides...
Jay@Midtown2> and you can do reverse 180's...
Jay@Midtown2> it definatley takes more skill.
Midtown_fred> Depends on the car you pick!
+Debbee@ZEvents> ga Quik last question
!QuiKShifTeR> Hey mr Gabe. Jay and Fred! My Name is QuiK! We are friends :) I Love Legal Cruize in Midtown Madness 1 but the cars hit you from the back and its not fun :(! Will MM2 Fix that? and Will cops Kill you if you dont stop when the do the siren thingy.. Thanks!
Midtown_fred> Depends on the car you pick!
!QuiKShifTeR> :) i have an amusing mind :)
Jay@Midtown2> The cops aren't as reckless as they were in MM1, but they still take care of business!
+Debbee@ZEvents> I'd like to thank Jay, Gabe and Fred for spending time with us tonight. I'd also like to thank all of you for being here as well! Good Night!
+Debbee@ZEvents> I'd like to thank Jay, Gabe and Fred for spending time with us tonight. I'd also like to thank all of you for being here as well! Good Night!
Midtown_fred> Bye!
Gabe@Midtown2> Au Reservoir!
--Jay@Midtown2> Adios

[Midas]

Those chat logs were originally uploaded to MM2C I think. They were available until they decided to take down the homepage.

[dummiesboy]

Yeah I downloaded them from MM2C about 7 years ago, just in case the site ever went down.

[BUGATTIMAN253MPH]

Oh, my god. I can't believe that this kind of stuff was going on back in 2000! Oh well, I was only born in '99, so it could have only been 2005 when I got MM2.

These are incredible finds, dummiesboy.

[sajmon14]

I remember that, great find

[aaro4130]

I found a way to make the barges go ~500mph today. Although that probably would have hindered more than helped

[dummiesboy]

Wouldn't hurt if you could make them go 10 MPH rather than 2. That would at least make this trip possible without cheat engine.

Not that it matters I suppose, being a beta feature...

[mm2mm1fan]

Wouldn't hurt if you could make them go 10 MPH rather than 2. That would at least make this trip possible without cheat engine.

Not that it matters I suppose, being a beta feature...

Unless it could be ported to the retail version